All posts by Anonymous GqzBlin4ZilpyKoru

So from what I heard, harming only those who deserve their fates isn't enough to make someone a Baddie. As a result, actions such as Gohan torturing Cell and Kevin's dangerous traps onto the Wet Bandits weren't deemed enough to make them shady for the trope. However, from what I researched, some actions like MtP!Holmes killing Milverton, a Purely Evil Psychopath, and Bayverse!Prime brutally slaughtering Sentinel (as well as the Fallen) were deemed enough to make them Baddies. Now, I'm not saying that Gohan or Kevin should be approved here but I am not completely sure on how their cases are different from how Holmes and Prime killing PEs were enough to give them the required shadiness.

Also, what is the minimum baseline that a character has to pass to be bad enough for the trope? From what I heard, not even being a villain is automatically bastardly enough for the trope as Enyne was rejected for not being bad enough despite being the main villain of the DLC she's in.

Generally, there are a good chunk of candidates who were deemed Smug Snakes due to having a god complex such as Light Yagami and Kray Foresight. However, having a god complex isn't inherently disqualifying as there are a chunk of MBs who have one such as BW!Megs and Baron Zemo from Avengers EMH who still qualify for the trope. From what I saw in their proposals, their god complexes were deemed to not make them Smug Snakes as their feats were impressive enough to warrant it. However, at what point does an MB have feats impressive enough to warrant a God Complex without being a Smug Snake? Of course, someone like Hans Gruber would be disqualified for having one as feats on his level aren't that impressive for a God Complex to be warranted. However, Light has many impressive feats such as being the smartest student, defeating L and evading the law for a decade. Obviously, I'm not saying that Light counts for the trope as he definitely doesn't due to his arrogance (along with other factors) but he seems to have the feats for a god complex alone to not disqualify him. As such, I am curious to know when a god complex is warranted and doesn't disqualify a candidate.

So personally, I feel like Loid Forger from Spy X Family could count. For Magnificence, he's a pretty cool spy who's also incredibly funny. He's also rather competent at his job, having a photographic memory and being incredibly deductive whilst constantly making schemes to improve the success of his mission.

I don't think him technically not being a villain is a problem as he's a murderer and is very pragmatic to the point of allowing Anya to cheat on her exams and even sabotaging her opponents in the dance. He's also a philanderer and womanizer as shown when he admits that he's had relationships with countless women. Heck, he even puts a tracker on his own wife and was initially planning to abandon Anya so I think he's bastardly enough to count. However, he's def not too vile as he's a tragic hero who wants World Peace to be ensured and he does prove to care for his family in the end.

While he does have a chunk of humiliating moments throughout the series, I do think it's a similar case to Sebastian Moran and Grunkle Stan in that it generally is more a front to hide his threat level rather than a factor that downplays his magnificence. This is supported by the fact that when Loid is in a serious situation, he always remains Magnificent and keeps his composure whilst remaining competent as he completely lacks any undignified moments in the series' more serious arcs such as the Tennis Arc and the Doggy Crisis arc with most of Loid's humiliating moments happening during light hearted arcs or one-shots. It helps that characters like Anya, Yor and Yuri arguably have more worse moments with Loid's being toned down as the story progresses.

What do you think?

Now, obviously, most candidates here are brilliant operators who are generally capable of manipulating others and easily make others their pawns for their plots. Of course, another important aspect of the trope is a character being likable to the audience which comes naturally to most candidates by having good VAs, 'Evil is Cool' or simply having a generally enjoyable personality. However, for this post, I want to see examples of characters who have the smarts for the trope but ultimately don't count since they lack entertaining qualities or 'Evil is Cool' Aspects that make them likable to the audience.

So a strange example is the Hotel Manager from Old. Now, he is definitely too vile to count (just see his crime list on the NPE Wiki). However, IIRC, he was removed from the disallowed pages for being too obvious due to lacking the charm required for the trope and he likely wouldn't have counted even if he wasn't too vile so I feel he could be used as a theoretical example.

The Hotel Manager is a brilliant operator who manages to use an island to host unethical drug experiments on tourists and make them process the drugs quickly. Despite that, he seriously lacks charm and charisma to him as he lacks any entertaining qualities that could make him likable. Furthermore, none of his crimes have any entertaining or 'Evil is Cool' aspects to them which prevents him from being charming. While he is Faux Affably Evil, it doesn't make him charming enough as it doesn't make him an entertainingly character to watch or add any stage presence to him to the point where he's kind of boring to watch. Overall, while the Manager has the smarts for the trope, the main reason he doesn't count is because he lacks any real charm to make him likable to the audience and the narrative doesn't try to portray him as cool or awesome at any point in the movie.

Give your own examples.

I'll give out two examples of characters who come close to qualifying but ultimately don't count for the trope because of technicalities.

Dexter Morgan: Now, Dexter is a rather stylish operator and was an undetected serial killer for over a decade. While he is undeniably bastardly for killing hundreds of criminals simply to satisfy his sadism, he has many redeeming and sympathetic qualities to counteract that. Helps that he is pitted against many viler serial killers in the show. However, while definitely close, Dexter ultimately doesn't count for what he did in Season 2. There, he was dating Rita but then cheated on her with Lila out of pure stupidity by having sex with the latter for no reason which screws him over with Rita. Now obviously, cheating on your spouse isn't an automatic disqualification for the trope as shown with Lawrence Gordon from Saw and Dexter does apologize to Rita about this which prevents the slip-up alone from being too mitigating by itself due to Rita forgiving him. However, IIRC, cheating in a relationship specifically is only allowed under three conditions:

1. The extra marital relationship never goes beyond sexual.

2. The character is two-timing purely for pragmatic reasons.

3. The spouse being cheated on is an unsympathetic victim.

Ultimately, while Dexter does come close to counting for the trope and even regrets cheating on Rita, the fact that his cheating doesn't fall under these conditions is what prevents him from counting as fails on all three fronts. He had sex with Lila while still dating Rita, him cheating on Rita was done for no reason other than maybe being a douchebag as he never planned to use Lila as a pawn and Rita is treated as an innocent victim. It doesn't help that he had sex with Lila seconds after scolding her for threatening his relationship with Rita for no apparent reason which I can't understand at all.

For my next candidate, it will be Kiyotaka Ayanokoji from Classroom of the Elite. Now, Ayanokoji is a brilliant chess master who is basically The Planner of the entire series. For the most part, he is pretty Magnificent as he helps support Class D from behind the scenes. However, the reason he doesn't count for the trope is the 'Spread Your Legs' Scene. In that scene, he asks Kei Karuizawa to spread her legs in a disturbingly predatory manner which constitutes as sexual harassment. Considering that Ayanokoji isn't from a kids show and that Kei is treated as a victim, it's safe to say that this makes him too vile to count.

You can give your own examples below.

I know I did a similar post last year. However, this time, I'm only talking about the Manhwa version of the character, not the mainstream light-novel version so this isn't just a copy of a prior post. Also, FYI, this isn't a proposal or discussion.

Now, for Magnificence, Fang Yuan easily hits the bill. He maintains composure throughout nearly the entire run of the story and rarely ever loses it. He's very smart as well as he consistently comes up with brilliant plots to ensure he gains more power and is incredibly persistent as well. For example, in order to obtain a Liquor Worm (which is treated as an incredible power-up in-universe), he drank many bottles of wine at the young age of 15 to give out an aroma so that the worm would go to it (not trying to encourage underage drinking FYI). The plan works and even allows Fang Yuan to get a huge treasure. Even his enemies admire how magnificent Fang Yang is. Something to mention is that in one of the later chapters, Fang Yuan uses a female Gu Master as a human shield from wolves. However, this was done solely for pragmatic reasons and I feel like it's a similar case to Guts and Megabyte where it's just him being smart than outright cowardly. Furthermore, Fang Yuan is very much willing to take risks and fight tough opponents so I can't say he's a coward.

For being too vile, the OG Fang Yuan has many revolting crimes such as feeding a teenager to a bear and boiling two children alive. However, since the Manhwa only covers part of the first arc, most of Fang Yuan's worst crimes are cut out from the adaptation (BTW, if you're wondering whether the manhwa will adapt those crimes in the future, it's been cancelled for years so that likely won't happen). This version is still fairly vile but most of his crimes are completely tame compared to his novel counterpart.

He does dismember a guard in pieces and put him in a box before sending half of them to the master. However, this falls under pragmatic villainy as it was mainly done to coerce him into giving him compensation for losing 30 Primeval Stones. The fact that the master is impressed by this plan makes me doubt that you're meant to see this as repulsive, especially since the guard was kind of a jerk to Fang Yuan. He has some other crimes but as someone who read the manhwa, I don't think they're particular concerning for the trope. Furthermore, he's pitted against an arguably corrupt establishment at this point in the story.

Finally, he has a Freudian Excuse. Fang Yuan alongside his brother were orphaned and raised by their aunt and uncle who were uncaring for the both of them and only saw them for the use they could provide for the clan. Eventually, Fang Yuan was completely rejected by the clan once he only proved to be a C Grade Talent which heavily upset the teenager at that time. While he arguably moved on from this by the time of his reincarnation, it is clearly meant to give him a level of depth and arguably make him rootable despite being a Villain Protagonist.

Final Note: This only covers the version from the Manhwa and NOT the light novel version so don't bring up stuff like him feeding a teenager to a bear or him boiling two children alive as they don't happen in the Manhwa.